city of the northeast. these were european first generations european who had no gun training. they got here and drafted to the army -- [inaudible conversations] people need to know and understand the firearms. that's when the nra was formed. when you get to today, it's interesting because that was urban, rural kind of division. that's the division. a lot of people don't have any familiarity in firearms. if you grew up in downtown anywhere where guns were banned and all of this whether it was gun crime -- is it illogical for you to think that these are bad rather than good? >> for -- [inaudible conversations] >> most of americans it's different. it is cultural. i talk about the cultural war which are id on call. it's also cultural in term of the upbringing and where you come from. i come from wisconsin, and when i was growing up, back in the old days you could take your shotgun -- [inaudible] you could get a card board case for your rifle at the check in counter. we could take our shotguns to school. that d